Yahoo! Sports’ Adrian Wojnarowski started a new venture this season with his podcast: The Vertical. Today he released a 45 minute conversation with former Denver Nuggets General Manager Masai Ujiri, who now holds the same title with the Toronto Raptors and added a new one in Team President.

On the podcast, the two discuss Masai’s journey to working in various NBA front offices and they delve into the Nuggets trade of Carmelo Anthony to the New York Knicks. Ujiri was hired just as Melo was on his way out of Denver. Being tasked with trading his new team’s star player, Ujiri spoke about trying to convince Melo to stay and had the following to say about that topic:

“Will he stay? That was my first attack,” said Ujiri to Wojnarowski on the podcast. “One day I spoke to him, and I think it was that day I figured: You got no chance.”

Ujiri goes on to discuss the trade further and the return the Nuggets got back in that deal. For basketball junkies, it’s a very good listen. Ujiri details his road to success and his close relationships with Josh Kroenke, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and San Antonio Spurs GM R.C. Buford. Ujiri also discusses his foundation, Giants of Africa, and how he was influenced by his parents and former South African President Nelson Mandela (who died on Dec. 5th, 2013).

After getting to spend some time around Ujiri during the 2012-13 season, I was convinced the Nuggets should have done whatever it took to keep him in Denver. It’s incredible the lengths to which the Raptors went to bowl Ujiri over with their offer — Masai talks about that offer on the Woj podcast.

I highly encourage everyone to listen to this podcast. Ujiri is such a unique individual, his perspective on basketball and life is a can’t miss.

New Pod: Toronto GM Masai Ujiri on Raptors, Mandela, Melo deal in Denver. Stitcher: https://t.co/CYBxbEqkEg; ITunes: https://t.co/frCHZvxMCC

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) January 7, 2016