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Finding trade partners for the Avalanche core

AJ Haefele
AJ Haefele
January 5, 2017
Finding trade partners for the Avalanche core

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AJ Haefele

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January 5, 2017

Speak of the devil. I just posted a comment on the Good/bad/ugly that there isn’t enough analysis on here. YAY! more things to ponder other than “this guy played like crap last night”.

I like your analysis. IMHO tho, I think you’re ‘why doesn’t it work’ pretty much sums up the Av’s problems top to bottom. They are terribly weak at forward. Duch, Mac and Landy are the only 3 proven forwards on the team. You could argue Sods was, but he hasn’t been this year. Everyone else is either a prospect who’s value is yet to be determined (grigs/rantonen for example), a journeyman who will never make the roster of a contender, or an aging vet who isn’t valued anymore. They have 3 top 6 centers. That’s it.

I like the potential in the pipeline, but until they show they have it, they are just potential. And all these trades give us is more ‘potential’.

I agree, we need another guy to play the blueline, but unless we can get a solid one that’s ready NOW, I think it’s smarter to just sit tight and let the team draft/grow. We got a lot of $ freeing up this summer. We can sign a blue liner, and let the prospective forwards prove their worth next year. AND we get a high draft pick that might add to the team next year.

I don’t think it’s worth a trade right now.

Oh, and I think I see a typo. The paragraph starting “Like White, he should be joining..” is repeated from the end of the paragraph before it.

Replying to

January 6, 2017

Weird technical glitch. Sometimes things get repeated. Thanks for catching it!

The issue with trading a guy like Duchene/Landeskog is there is no easy fit with any of these deals. I’d prefer the team take some chances and try to potentially shore up two positions, a la the Ottawa deal, instead of just dealing for an established defenseman straight up. That’s filling one hole while creating another, you know? That’s the appeal of the prospect route. There’s obviously much more risk involved but their value is lower because they aren’t proven in the NHL yet so you can theoretically get a couple of them and hope your scouting is solid and you hit on them.

My personal opinion is not to make the deals at all but the Avs are coming up against it and I felt it prudent to take a look at some possibilities.

Replying to

January 6, 2017

I get it and agree. However, i think Duchene is worth much more than prospects. Landy maybe not… but when you look at points/60 Duchene is ranked 9th in all the NHL over the last 4 years (well, 2013-17). That’s pretty high territory. (http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201317&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=0&pos=forwards&minutes=1000&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC)

Clearly the solution is the play Duchene 60 min so we can take advantage of that. (HA!)

I’ll be the first to say that Matt is NOT a guy that can carry a team yet. But he is a very gifted player in a very weak team. The fact that he can do what he does with the players he plays with means he’s probably worth more than any other player on the team. If we trade him, we HAVE to get more than one guy, or we ‘lose’ the trade as you said.

January 6, 2017

If they trade Duchene. I will… write a strongly-worded letter, I guess.

Replying to

January 6, 2017

I tried that with the goal song 🙁

Sunfunbun

Sunfunbun

January 6, 2017

I like the Ottawa deal best, by quite a ways, and then the Boston deal. Wherever Duchene and/or
Landeskog go, I’d like to see them go to a winning team and raise the Cup.

January 6, 2017

What a gift those two kids elliot and siemens down in saskatoon getting to hone their skills playing together to be that future #1 pair for the avalanche someday

I kid, I kid =)

January 11, 2017

I’ve played with that armchair GM on capfriendly the last few days when I had time and I really can’t come up with better trades than AJ did here. It sucks that Chabot had such a big WJC because there’s basically zero chance ottawa can make that deal now. It was an interesting note in the 30 thoughts today that the WJC means basically nothing to the scouts. I tend to agree, but the perception of the fans/media when this extreme will prevent GMs from making moves. While I think the Ottawa deal is pretty fair, now that Chabot is the next Bobby Orr to Sens fans, their GM will be crucified if he trades him.

On that note I find the perception of prospects to be quite silly. Take Boston for example, when they moved Hamilton most of their fans were outraged at the return they got and I would bet you 10 out of 10 Bruins fans would have taken Landeskog instead without hesitation. Fast forward two years and if you tried to package Carlo, Senyshyn, and Lauzon for Landeskog 10 out of 10 fans would hate that deal and run Sweeney out of town! 3 guys with a combined 43 games of NHL experience are now “untouchable” for a first line winger who’s 24 and locked in to an insanely good contract. The Carlo thing is especially crazy to me. I was surprised he even made the team out of camp and still expected him to get sent down, then he had some early season puck luck, gets paired with an all-time great that still has more in the tank than people want to give him credit for and now he’s “untouchable”. I watched this kid extensively in Tri-City, a lot of times against Spokane, and watched him get continuously worked in the corners by (one of my favs for 2017 draft) Kailer yamamoto who’s like a foot and 50 pounds smaller than carlo. Watched him get turnstiled, saw how soft he is for his size, saw him contribute little to no offense, saw him have a less than great WJC, and I still see a lot of those things today. I live in boston for the time being now and so I’ve really got to follow his career for the last couple years and I just don’t see it with him at the level he’s being praised. And now he’s untouchable!

It blows me away that’s there’s no cognitive recognition that there’s such a leap from dominating junior to being a high end NHLer. Carlo still isn’t even close to that yet! That’s the reason you must move multiples of these guys to acquire a young proven NHLer. The price has been pretty standard for these types of guys and that is two 1st round talents and a 2nd. Ryan, Carter, Richards, etc all fetched about this and that’s what the Avs need to get for Landeskog and duchene, and that’s basically what AJ laid out. For me, if you’re going to move Landeskog, you have to move duchene too. Duchene’s value is never going to be much higher than it is now with 2 1/2 years left and this deadline being labeled a ‘seller’s market’. Summer of 2019 Duchene will be 28 and looking at signing a 7-8 year deal that will see out the rest of his productive years, how likely is he going to want to spend those in Colorado if we miss the playoffs again the next two years? There’s no shame in giving 10 years of your life somewhere then just saying ‘it didn’t work out’ and moving on.

If I’m the Avalanche I would rather move these guys near the same time (if were going to move them) because if you’re able to get a combination of 6 high picks/prospects for the two of them, the two deals will forever be sort of lumped together so that if duchene fetches the next toews, kane and keith and landeskog brings back a bunch of pat falloons well then it nets out a win for Colorado and they can sell that to their fans. Also it allows them to not have to make the ‘perfect’ trade with either of them. If NYI jumps in on duchene but is only offering forwards like barzal and bellows, and boston gives in and offers mcavoy, lauzon and some picks, together you can make those work. Ideally, I would love to not trade duchene (if I’m trading him) until the draft. I’m not super crazy about Nolan Patrick, but once we know the Avs have the #1 pick and we can actually see Patrick play some damn games this season, I can be sold that he’s a different enough player that he could potentially compliment MacKinnon as a solid 2-way #2 center. So with him in my back pocket I would be more OK with trading Duchene. I do like Jost, but I’m not sure where I want him to play and can’t fully commit to seeing him as my future top6 centerman.

All that said, I’m most interested in what the team does with their lets call them ‘expendable rentals’. Guys like Iginla, Bourque, tyutin, and even mitchell and beauchemin. These guys have to be moved at all costs for 2nd-5th round picks or similar type prospects (And I’m most definitely retaining salary for higher picks if I can). The Avs have had a real lack of depth type prospects the last… lets say 10 years. For all Roy’s faults, he recognized this and that’s why he brought in all those euro fringe NHLers to try and bridge the gap until the team can build those sorts of players from within. If we can take away positives from the last year, its that the team seems to finally have laid a groundwork with their drafting and AHL development system. I’ve mostly liked the last two drafts and finally have confidence in San Antonio and would love to give them some more room to show us what they’ve got with 10-12 picks this year. The last time the Avs were this bad was that crazy short season that was a total clusterfuck and you can’t really blame them for not stocking up on extra picks, this time there’s no excuse.

I would rather move these guys sooner than later too. NHL playing time is a controllable asset. I rather get 30 NHL games for guys like JT, AJ and bigras at this point. It’s a good time to get them a trip through the league and for all those guys that say “leave them down, don’t bring them into this toxic environment” if you’re a 21 year old kid dying to make the NHL, is 30 games of losing going to kill your spirit? If so, that’s also good to know about those guys. I don’t know, maybe this Avs team is that soul crushing they could even bring AJ Greer down, but I just can’t see that happening.

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